Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Townsville nth Qld
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: cranky vista
After quite a few years of semi retirement I find myself back in the work force again. While I admit the money is nice I find that if I leave vista alone for to long it seems to get mischievous and play tricks on me.
For example : if I just walk away from my pc at night or in the morning and leave it to its own devices, it refuses to start any thing from the start menu when I return, unless I run the item as admin. If I put it on stand by and wake it up when I get home, it seems to behave much better.
Internet explorer seems to have a mind of its own and at times, times out for no logical reason in a matter of seconds when opening web pages. Firefox on the other hand is excellent and opens pages fast as.
On occasions programs can take an age to crank, I mean, have a stubby, wash the car.
Ive scan disked and defraged and it seems not to help.
Vista has also decided I do not have a burner in the PC although it is there in Bios and was fine at first.
When I type quotation marks I have to type them ""twice twice"" and then back space and delete one of them.
Interestingly, the company I work for has just installed a new computer system and have accepted the advice of a reputable company to stay with XP even on PC's that are near leading edge and could rum Vista very well. I spoke to the IT guys about this at work and they were adamant that the company should stay with XP.
Leaves me a little confused, are we, and other gamers the main users of Vista and is this avoidance of Vista common in the IT world?
And about that job, all I do is stare at mountains of (some times I can barely carry them) building plans and make huge lists of all the items required to make the building, then I decide how much it will cost.
IF: I do OK: I will keep my job: ELSE: my boss will go broke.
AND: I will have tonnes of time for FS again! ......tempting?
"End IF"
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 321 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:
Hi Marty
Vista's short comings are widely reported but in my case I have found Vista flawless from the word go. IMHO it's the best operating system they have ever released. Its hundreds of times smarter. It's infinitely better at handling its own resources. XP has major memory leak problems. Vista has been up and running on my PC non stop for 2 weeks day and night. I have not even come close to feeling that dreaded slowdown I used to get with XP after 3 days running continuously
Would you mind sharing your system specifications with us ? Also because your PC is setup for FSX I'm going to assume your a Power User as in and I would suggest that you go to Control Panel - Click on the Classic View Option - Then click power settings and choose high Performance.
One of the good things about Vista is that it can turn allot of things off to save power. That includes Hard drives, USB ports, just about anything really. This is where I think your finding the problem. It's easy to turn these things off but Windows requires you to wake these things up before trying to use them. When you try to use them while they are in there low powered state the computer takes a long time to do so because its trying use some of those powered down items to start other powered down items. This means she will wake up as soon as the computer has all the resources it needs available to help speed the process along Vista isn't one to make you wait though and will slowly give you access to the items it has powered up. this can sometimes be a setback to the whole powering up process because as you try and use those items they are further taking up resources that would otherwise be spent waking up the computer.
Anyway, you get the idea.
Logging off and Logging on again is the normal way we use to wake the computer from its low power state and should be used in all other power modes. However with the High Power setup you will limit the number and type of components powered down and the computer will be far more responsive in the future.
The below URL talks about Laptop power management but its relevant to my comments just the same and it explains a few things even better than i can.
The Toms Hardware guide shows Vista loosing slightly in the speed and performance game. However for the extra safety reliability and intelligence in driver support and installation of software. I think Vista will save you time and money over XP as well as reduce the frustrations in diagnosing software errors of third party products. I would also like to point out this this article is more than one year old (January 29, 2007 09:16). The patchs and service packs would have addressed the early issues and given that there was only a 1-2% speed difference in favour of XP I would suggest that figure has at least turned around over the last 15 months
Anyway I hope some of this helps explain and fix the issues you are having as i'm sure they are very frustrating.
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Townsville nth Qld
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject:
I started writing a reply but vista decided I didnt want to and closed the page so I will try again.
I forgot to mention Vista closes apps, web pages etc, when ever it wants to. This can be really annoying.
Vista will often also will forget I have an internet connection and can be very stubborn in being reconnected, days sometimes. Even though the xp computer on the same router is always on line with out fail. I always use the xp computer if something is important as it is totally reliable.
This computer has an intel core duo E6850 with 2 gig ram and a nvidia gts 8800. vista home premium
Are the up sp grades to vista automatic or do I have to down load them?
It some times does does upgrades and tells me I need to restart but to date it has never shut down even if left over night, In fact the only way to turn off vista is to hold the power button for four seconds.
I get message ""windows explorer has stopped responding and must be restarted"" this closes every application running as well.
I use Firefox and Thunderbird and have gone over to office org because office 2007 is so slow it is unusable. I timed a 2007 spread sheet to open and gave up after one hour. Office org is about 10 seconds but has no VB. I also use zone alarm anti virus but even though I have a current account with zone alarm vista refuses to start it on boot up and I have to start it manually. Auto zone alarm up dates never work and I have to do them manually.
I just noticed zone alarm is not running, has vista closed it down or did I forget to start it. Vista often closes minimized programs if I have not used them that day.
I dabbled with linux a while ago and am tempted to put it on a separate HD on this machine to see how it runs.
It runs fsx quite smoothly and it is one app that has never crashed but has hung a few times. but I often get a message that real world weather is not available because I do not have an internet connection, generally I can go straight to Firefox and it has access to the web when this message occurs.
One last thing my mouse scrolls backwards, ok on XP but on this pc its backwards.
Tried my burner in the xp machine, no probs at all. Pioneer dvd rw
Looks like I have a dud vista but this seems to be common and pc sales people I talk to still recommend XP.
Have to say to date after an initial positive response to vista I am becoming very disappointed with it. Luckily I still have several spare xp disks.
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 321 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject:
Hi Marty,
I would like to try and help you because I personally have enjoyed the benefits of Vista and unlike previous versions I’m have been recommending Vista from the launch. Its rather standard practise for us in the IT industry to advice people to stay away from new OS’s for at least a year.
Below I will suggest some things that I have derived from your post that may or may not be correct. I will however do my best to reply in a helpful and informative manner.
I can see allot of areas were Vista's new security features will clash with the software you have installed. I'm not sure if you have the latest updates that apply many fixes to some of the things you have outlined here.
Have you thought about formatting and starting again? Sometimes when an OS has been corrupted that is the only thing left to do.
I have used Linux for many years and there are some things to know when considering any OS. All operating systems are a modification based on UNIX. The more you modify the design of the UNIX base kernel the more issues you will find. Linux is the closest product on the market to UNIX and therefore has fewer problems because there are simply fewer modifications. The list of OS problems will reflect the amount of changes to the kernel.
Now from a company point of view it’s like stretching a rubber band. Every time you bring out a new version you want to improve the OS and expand the amount of uses the OS can provide to its customers. There is no doubt that MS is the most user friendly and broad OS on the market. The vast majority of us own PC's because MS made them easy enough for the average Joe to understand and operate without needing a PhD.
However they needed to stretch that rubber band a long way to provide this service, and she cracks every now and again under the pressure of being so much to so many people(Bloated is the most common word used). The age old you can’t please everyone also applies to software engineering and the more you try to please everyone the more mistakes and problems you make for yourself. The fact that MS is by far the world’s largest company is evidence to the level of control MS has over the chaos they create and their ability to fix their mistakes rapidly so the customer can move on. Understand that Linux is made and supported by tens of thousands of users and the vast majority of those programs they create for Linux are not as effective or user friendly as those made through MS In fact tens of thousands of Linux products and software are discarded every year because they either don’t work or only work for a small group who have the exact same PC setup as the originator. The only success Linux has had in the past few years is by copying MS windows and the way its kernel thinks. This explains why Apple, OS2, Linux, and all the others in between have much smaller kernels that are closer to the original UNIX code and create less virtual problems for their users. That’s also why Apple builds their own PC’s to further ensure the compatibility of their software. When you can dictate what hardware people use the software becomes much easier to design. Companies’ complaint file almost directly reflects the amount of changes they have made to the original kernel. Thus less issues through adapting 1960s software to 2008 applications.
I wish I had your PC in front of me because I think with some simple tips on PC maintenance that together we could get programs working at full pace again. I would love to see how much of your system resources are being allocated to the programs you run and how well they are booting at start-up.
If your PC will run FSX well then it can run everything else just as good. But I think you have driver issues and possibly need to update your software a little to reach the full potential.
I would start in these areas first and humbly request a little information to better gauge the issues you are having so I can better address them.
From what I can see of your original post you currently have 2-3 Internet exploring programs? Two office type applications. Two firewalls and I’m guessing you also have 2-3 malware/spyware combination programs installed currently? I would suggest choosing one of each and disabling the rest because doubling up on programs is a key resource killer. Have you disabled or uninstalled Windows Firewall, MS internet explorer, Windows Defender, MS Office 07 by any chance? If not I think it would help you allot to do so.
Have you used msconfig before or a registry cleaning program? Do you know how to disable unused windows services? Have you disabled user account control and are you operating as the Administrator of your PC or User
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Townsville nth Qld
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject:
I just ran Tweak now reg cleaner. 36 items deleted
they were reg entries for programs I have uninstalled trying to get this thing going
programs disabled using the Kill command so they can not start even if there icons are clicked
Internet explorer
outlook
windows defender
all chat programs
All cad, graphic, drawing programs uninstalled and reg cleaned
ms office uninstalled and reg cleaned
Office org quick launch disabled
windows calender disabled
at present there are 17 processes running in device manager
all programs have to ask permission before they can connect to the internet.
at present none are connected except
windows side bar
fire fox
Thunderbird
host program for windows services
server driver listening ports tcp 139,3389
Ram usage 772 mb
cpu 4%
recent scan disk and defrag
after a clean install the following programs were added
ms fsx
ofice org
Mozilla fire fox
Thunderbird
free download manager
zone alarm
tweak now reg cleaner
expert pdf reader
Izarc (zip reader and packer)
and those programs listed above that have been removed.
Its not a long list
I have a lot of photos in my pictures in various folders
and little else.
basically this PC is used for web, email or fsx
I have no addons to FSX, it is as installed.
fire fox deletes all cookies when it is closed and history is disabled.
there are no live feeds and no email news feeds.
spam is deleted by My ISP and all most none gets thru
what does is intercepted by Thunderbird and permanently deleted,
this includes all emails from all people not in my address book
there are 23 names in my address book, all people I trust.
Thunderbird will not add names to the address book unless told to.
I dont think I have a virus, definitions are up to date and scans are at 2300 every night.
User account control is on
Thanks for taking a look. When I have time I will buy a new HD and do a clean install.
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 321 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject:
Hi Marty,
How did you find performance after the clean out? Any improvements, also did you go the clean install today as in formatted Vista or a instillation over the top of Vista?
It looks like you have everything under control. I don’t see any red flags and as far as i can tell your system is more than capable of running everything in a smooth and efficient manner at this point. I was surprised by one thing, the registry cleaner found only 36 items? For your average PC even with regular cleaning of the registry I would have expected up to a few hundred registry changes as a result of the clean out. You either clean the registry on a very regular basis and don’t change your system configuration or instillation very much or something is amiss in that department. It’s not uncommon to find more than a few hundred registry problems after a fresh install of any OS even after fully updating to the latest patches and service packs as well.
Sometimes when it comes to computers you need a crystal ball but of course I will still help you all I can.
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Townsville nth Qld
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
I am posting this so others who have had similar problems with Vista may get some helpful tips.
Yesterday evening, a message appeared on my desktop "Update failed"
and was accompanied by a link to view the history of all my updates. To my surprise, many had failed.
It seems the security system in vista was refusing updates.
To fix this I set updates to ask before installing, then re downloaded all the up dates including service pak 1 which had also failed.
I then turned off user accounts and closed down Zone alarm and windows defender.
Then I reinstalled sp1 followed by all the other updates. It has taken about 2 hours.
SP1 in particular took a long time. Reviewing the log shows all updates are successful.
On re boot windows defender started automatically but I had to reboot again to reset user accounts.
The good news so far is that the pc is rebooting by its self again and quickly, so I am hopeful other issues will improve as well.
The blurb accompanying sp1 , claims to address many of the issues I have been having.
It seems service pack one does not auto install on some pc'c and must be done manually before other updates will work.
one other point is that zone alarm has picked up 1 virus, (thats normal) and 4 spy ware issues defender has missed.
If this is the solution, and I really hope it is, It makes me wonder how I got in this mess in the first place. It is an Intel system so there should not be hard ware issues and a reasonably fresh install. I understand why so many articles are negative about MS as these sort of issues should not occur and give opposers of MS fuel for the fire .
Still at the end of the day I will be very happy if my OS is healthy again.
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 321 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
Sound like a step in the right direction Marty, good luck and i hope your problems with Vista have been resolved now that your system is fully patched up.
I built a brand new system about 9 months back and installed (much to my trepidation) Vista 64 and I have to admit I have had basically no problems (touch wood). The only issues I had related to some very old game titles I had and I managed to find a work around.
Similar to Gavin, I wouldn't ever go back from Vista, I find it a very nice OS to use.
Having said all that, I hope you can get your system sorted Marty.
Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 321 Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:07 am Post subject:
The thing that really impressed me about vista was how smart it is. If you have a problem it gathers all the relevent information for you and will send it to MS, or you can copy it to send elsewhere. When Vista was very new i was finding issues that had not been recorded before but within a week they had a small service patch to fix the issue. The PC is far more stable and doesnt feel like it needs a format. Where XP used to feel like it needed a format after 6 months. Vista's like new every day regardless of how much shit i fill it up with.
Now that you have your Vista fully patched marty how is it running ?
Joined: Nov 30, 2006 Posts: 129 Location: UNITED KINGDOM , HERTFORDSHIRE
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:39 am Post subject:
I am with you on that one Gavin gathers all the relevent information for you and will send it to MS.
I went to download Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) for my XP and had a problem with it so now back on Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) so just have to wait and see about Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) _________________ viper1 " Martin Alan Dilley"
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 135 Location: Townsville nth Qld
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject:
The service pack has fixed nearly all the issues I was having. Programs that I have given administrative privileges are running and doing the things that they are supposed to. The message asking for permission to start these programs gets a bit old but that is better than a reboot every time to turn user accounts on or off.
The compatibility tab on the programs property is the place to give administrative rights to a program when it needs it. This is particularly useful when a program calls a second program to make changes to files, as is the case with XtoMod. I think my mouse may be causing one or two issues but with so many problems before the update, it was impossible to tell where the source of problems lay.
thanks for the encouragement , now I can get back to learning about FSX and how to make better models.
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